Dynasty Five

Allen Iverson

Rookie

Posts: 38

Jul 6, 2014 19:20:30 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 1:11:34 GMT

Quote

Post by Allen Iverson on Oct 5, 2013 1:11:34 GMT

TRADE 1:

Indiana trades:

78 Jordan Crawford - $2,162,418

Cleveland trades:

2013 1st Round Pick (Cavaliers)

Cleveland total salaries before trade: $54,826,000
Cleveland cap space before: $3,853,000

Cleveland total salaries after trade: $56,988,418
Cleveland cap space after: $1,690,582

TRADE 2:

Indiana trades:

83 Zach Randolph - $16,500,000 | $17,800,000 | $16,500,000

Total: $16,500,000

Cleveland trades:

76 Dion Waiters - $3,727,000 | $3,894,000 | $4,062,000 | $5,138,000
74 Tyler Zeller - $1,563,000 | $1,633,000 | $1,704,000 | $2,617,000
79 Anderson Varejao - $8,400,000 | $9,100,000 | $9,800,000
2014 1st Round Pick (Cavaliers)

Total: $13,690,000

$13,690,000 * 1.25 = $17,112,500 > $16,500,000

Cleveland total salaries (after trade 1 and before trade 2): $56,988,418
Cleveland total salaries (after both trades): $59,798,418

Last Edit: Oct 7, 2013 15:45:13 GMT by Allen Iverson

Bob McAdoo

Sophomore

Posts: 97

Jul 13, 2014 3:14:25 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 2:02:57 GMT

Quote

Post by Bob McAdoo on Oct 5, 2013 2:02:57 GMT

After a great start with Bynum / Irving, I've come to the conclusion the future is now and a big three is needed to hold off Chicago and to have a chance to compete with Miami.

New Cavs starting line-up will be:

C - Andrew Bynum (86)
PF - Zach Randolph (83)
SF - Alonzo Gee (75)
SG - Jordan Crawford (78)
PG - Kyrie Irving (85)

Jordan Crawford will get a chance to play as a starter. His /36 min numbers (shown below) from last year were very decent, 4+ Reb and 4+ Assists along with 17 ppg will be very helpful from the SG position.

Season Age GS FG% 3P% FT% TRB AST STL TOV PTS
2012-13 24 14 .415 .337 .811 4.4 4.7 0.8 3.0 17.1

Last Edit: Oct 5, 2013 3:13:49 GMT by Bob McAdoo: added Jordan Crawford rationale

Dominique Wilkins Sophomore Posts: 72 Dec 30, 2013 2:18:13 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 6:48:57 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Dominique Wilkins on Oct 5, 2013 6:48:57 GMT I'm going to reject. I don't think 2 1st round picks need to be included in this trade. The talent is pretty equal IMO and doesn't warrant any picks. Waiters should be rated a lot higher than he is currently.
	All that you know is at an end.

Josh Barber

Trade Committee

Posts: 104

Dec 29, 2014 15:48:46 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 12:44:03 GMT

Quote

Post by Josh Barber on Oct 5, 2013 12:44:03 GMT

In reality, this is

Randolph + Crawford

for

Varejao
4th overall pick in the 2012 draft (Waiters)
17th overall pick in the 2012 draft (Zeller)
2013 1st round pick
2014 first round pick

That's a lot of picks/talent to give up for a 4 point rating increase. Varejao is probably overrated at a 79, but it's still hard to justify all the picks included.

Sorry guys, I reject as well.

D-Will - Iso Joe - The Truth - The Big Ticket - The Big Fundamental

Allen Iverson

Rookie

Posts: 38

Jul 6, 2014 19:20:30 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 13:23:36 GMT

Quote

Post by Allen Iverson on Oct 5, 2013 13:23:36 GMT

I don't see why Josh has to point out how the players (Waiters and Zeller) were drafted. I mean, they haven't been that well yet in the league. The 4th pick they have may have been the 1st. It's a lottery. Besides, they may be a bust or a superstar or just role players. The Waiters' rating will take place when? When the season is reaching at it's end? The next season? How about the Randolph's rating increase?

Cleveland wants to challenge the East where BROOKLYN, MIAMI, and CHICAGO are there. He has Kyrie Irving a top 10 PG, if you want to point out that Cleveland is risking his future. Bynum when healthy is a top 5 Center, ZBo is a top 10-15 PF. I also want to point out that there are no injuries in this league. So a very healthy Kyrie, Bynum, and ZBo

2013 and 2014 picks are not in the lottery. Just look at Cleveland's roster after this trade.

Varejao has been out for a while the last seasons, I see his rating getting a decrease there.

Bob McAdoo

Sophomore

Posts: 97

Jul 13, 2014 3:14:25 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 18:33:03 GMT

Quote

Post by Bob McAdoo on Oct 5, 2013 18:33:03 GMT

Here's how I see it, if that will help.

Zbo for Varejao plus one late 1st rd pick and bodies to even out Zbo's $16MM salary. By the 125% rule I can`t just trade picks because adding $16MM puts me over the cap limit. ZBo is by far the best player in the trade and I get him.

J Crawford on a bargain contract for another late 1st round pick works for me. JC is going to be my starting SG - take a look at his per 36 minute numbers.

If you guys think Varejao is an asset, I`m open to offers (have been for weeks). Having had him for 22 games I promise y'all are over valuing him.

Can we get the other 3 on the trade committee to weigh in please?

Last Edit: Oct 5, 2013 18:36:31 GMT by Bob McAdoo: punctuation

Alex English

Trade Committee

Posts: 213

Jun 10, 2014 18:07:48 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 19:25:39 GMT

Quote

Post by Alex English on Oct 5, 2013 19:25:39 GMT

I don't think the issue is with Varejao. It's with Waiters and Zeller who are pretty decent prospects. The guys you described as "bodies to even out Zbo's $16MM salary." Also while I don't think the picks will be that high I don't think they'll be very late either, I'd figure somewhere in the 15-22 range.

Compare that with what you are getting. Jordan Crawford is a very inefficient volume shooter who will have to fight for every minute of playing time as he's competing with Avery Bradley, Marshon Brooks and Courtney Lee. Then Zach Randolph, who is the best player in this deal, but is also starting to show his age. His last two years he's put up 14.4 points and 10.4 rebounds in 32.1 minutes compared to the previous five years where he averaged 20.6 points and 11.0 rebounds in 35.6 minutes per game. At 32 years old his days of being an automatic 20 and 10 are over. I also think more and more of his playing time will be given to Ed Davis as Memphis starts to look towards the future.

PG - Goran Dragic | SG - Terrence Ross | SF - Maurice Harkless | PF - Enes Kanter | C - Jonas Valanciunas

2012/13 Season Record: 22-60

Alex English Trade Committee Posts: 213 Jun 10, 2014 18:07:48 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 19:34:08 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Alex English on Oct 5, 2013 19:34:08 GMT This is all moot anyway because this trade doesn't work under the salary cap. $13,690,000 * 1.25 = $17,112,500 Incoming salary = $18,662,418 The Cavs are under the cap but only by $3,853,000. The difference here is $4,972,418.
	PG - Goran Dragic \| SG - Terrence Ross \| SF - Maurice Harkless \| PF - Enes Kanter \| C - Jonas Valanciunas 2012/13 Season Record: 22-60

Bob McAdoo

Sophomore

Posts: 97

Jul 13, 2014 3:14:25 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 20:13:46 GMT

Quote

Post by Bob McAdoo on Oct 5, 2013 20:13:46 GMT

Breaking this into two trades will work:
1) ZBo for Zeller/Waiters/Varejao and 1 pick (Incoming $16.5MM - outgoing $13.69MM * 1.25 = $17.2MM
After trade #1 I am still under the cap by $1.043MM
2) Crawford for the other pick
After trade #2 I am over the cap by $1.2MM

However, that isn't the question here. I get the feeling that the Cavaliers are not getting the respect that they deserve.

Regarding Trade #1
I have a very consistent high performing center in Bynum (20 ppg, 10 rpg, 2 bpg) who is not an injury risk in this league, and a top 5 performing combo/PG in Kyrie (28+ ppg, 6.5 apg, 4+ rpg). To challenge for a title this year I need a big three with role players in the other two starting positions and some scoring off the bench (Jarrett Jack). I need a third star and I'm willing to take my chances now. Varejao is expendable and I'd prefer an upgrade at SF/SG but that doesn't seem feasible and I don't want to wait for Waiters/Zeller to get better, so an aging ZBo is acceptable.

Regarding Trade #2
Since this is a sim league it doesn't matter how many minutes Jordan Crawford gets in real life. I like his per 36 numbers and I want to make him a starter - I'll take 12 to 18 pts plus 4+ apg and 4+ rpg from my 4th option)

I have this team including ZBo after the trade locked up for next year as well, so. IN MY OPINION, I have a small but real window to push for a title. I plan to finish in the top 3 in the East this year and next so my expectation is that my picks are going to be mid-20s at best.

Alex English Trade Committee Posts: 213 Jun 10, 2014 18:07:48 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 5, 2013 20:50:54 GMT Walt Frazier likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Alex English on Oct 5, 2013 20:50:54 GMT Splitting it up into two trades doesn't work. If you have $1.043 mil available after the first trade how does taking Crawford's $2.1 mil work when you don't send any salary out?
	PG - Goran Dragic \| SG - Terrence Ross \| SF - Maurice Harkless \| PF - Enes Kanter \| C - Jonas Valanciunas 2012/13 Season Record: 22-60

Bob McAdoo

Sophomore

Posts: 97

Jul 13, 2014 3:14:25 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 6, 2013 1:34:37 GMT

Quote

Post by Bob McAdoo on Oct 6, 2013 1:34:37 GMT

I'm going to assume that Jack and I can fine tune the salaries to make this work and meanwhile, I found this in the archive...

It's been the case in the past that, if we didn't police trades quite closely then some teams were just destroyed by their GM, the GM got bored and left the league and we were left with a team, or a few teams, with rosters so crap that nobody wanted to be the GM, which harmed the league.

However we have had discussions that centred around the fact that, so long as the team still had a minimum level of assets then the GM should be allowed to make any trade they wanted...

Ian Noble Commissioner Posts: 749 Apr 26, 2020 9:43:23 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 6, 2013 14:45:59 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Ian Noble on Oct 6, 2013 14:45:59 GMT It goes both ways, Bob. In fact I'm quite happy to accept this trade for that very reason.
	34W - 46L \| A.Bradley - M.Brooks - P.George - J.Sullinger - T.Zeller

Bob McAdoo

Sophomore

Posts: 97

Jul 13, 2014 3:14:25 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 6, 2013 17:24:57 GMT

Quote

Post by Bob McAdoo on Oct 6, 2013 17:24:57 GMT

So... 2 against, and 1 approval, we need 2 more approvals - who are we waiting on?

To address Alex English's concerns on the salary cap rules:
We just need to change the order of the 2 trades detailed above to make it legal.

If we make the Crawford for picks 1st, then I'm still under the cap (I have $4.4MM room right now so $2.3MM under the cap after acquiring JC).
Then we make the other larger trade which takes me over the cap and I'm meeting the 125% rule and all is good.

Walt Frazier Trade Committee Posts: 169 Aug 15, 2024 23:48:14 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 7, 2013 3:35:09 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Walt Frazier on Oct 7, 2013 3:35:09 GMT I'll accept, it's up to Ian but it'd be best if the trades were reposted.

Ian Noble Commissioner Posts: 749 Apr 26, 2020 9:43:23 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 7, 2013 8:23:10 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Ian Noble on Oct 7, 2013 8:23:10 GMT Either edit the original post or re-post this trade please guys.
	34W - 46L \| A.Bradley - M.Brooks - P.George - J.Sullinger - T.Zeller

Allen Iverson Rookie Posts: 38 Jul 6, 2014 19:20:30 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 7, 2013 15:41:00 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Allen Iverson on Oct 7, 2013 15:41:00 GMT Edited. I think it's 2-2 now.

Bob McAdoo Sophomore Posts: 97 Jul 13, 2014 3:14:25 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 7, 2013 23:03:53 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Bob McAdoo on Oct 7, 2013 23:03:53 GMT Who are we waiting on?

Ian Noble Commissioner Posts: 749 Apr 26, 2020 9:43:23 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 8, 2013 10:31:06 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Ian Noble on Oct 8, 2013 10:31:06 GMT I think Alex needs to make a final decision. I'll PM him.
	34W - 46L \| A.Bradley - M.Brooks - P.George - J.Sullinger - T.Zeller

Alex English

Trade Committee

Posts: 213

Jun 10, 2014 18:07:48 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 8, 2013 19:08:43 GMT

Quote

Post by Alex English on Oct 8, 2013 19:08:43 GMT

I've said a lot about how I don't like this trade. I think it's shortsighted by the Cavs and that Randolph is close to deserving a decrease. But he'd still have Irving, Bynum and Thompson to go along with Randolph which is more than enough talent to build something with. Bob McAdoo is pretty happy with this trade so I'll accept it.

PG - Goran Dragic | SG - Terrence Ross | SF - Maurice Harkless | PF - Enes Kanter | C - Jonas Valanciunas

2012/13 Season Record: 22-60

Ian Noble Commissioner Posts: 749 Apr 26, 2020 9:43:23 GMT	Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 8, 2013 20:28:30 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Ian Noble on Oct 8, 2013 20:28:30 GMT Trade/trades passed, but only just!
	Last Edit: Oct 8, 2013 20:28:48 GMT by Ian Noble 34W - 46L \| A.Bradley - M.Brooks - P.George - J.Sullinger - T.Zeller

Bob McAdoo

Sophomore

Posts: 97

Jul 13, 2014 3:14:25 GMT

Pacers - Cavaliers Oct 8, 2013 22:05:36 GMT

Quote

Post by Bob McAdoo on Oct 8, 2013 22:05:36 GMT

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and comments. I officially accept the trade. I will admit that this trade looked better when I was 12-2, but the fans in Cleveland deserve a title run. Bynum, Irving and ZBo and some development from some of the other guys gives me a decent 2 to 3 year window.